DipTrace 4.0 Release

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gunrunnerjohn
Posts: 38
Joined: 28 Jun 2013, 16:17

Re: DipTrace 4.0 Release

#81 Post by gunrunnerjohn » 04 Jul 2020, 11:09

A suggestion for an enhancement to the handling of ratlines. Once you've run the autorouter, sometimes things aren't 100% routed. However, there are also times that the verification misses that fact! If you look closely, the tiny ratlines are there, but they can get lost in all the other clutter, especially on a complex board. It would be nice if you could just toggle an "enhance ratlines" feature that made them much bolder so you could easily locate them.

Dave8266
Posts: 17
Joined: 20 Mar 2020, 23:57

Re: DipTrace 4.0 Release

#82 Post by Dave8266 » 04 Jul 2020, 22:26

gunrunnerjohn wrote:
04 Jul 2020, 11:09
Once you've run the autorouter, sometimes things aren't 100% routed. However, there are also times that the verification misses that fact! If you look closely, the tiny ratlines are there
I too have seen that. I'd second the vote for a toggle option to make ratlines prominent, but the "ratlines still remain when the autorouter claims it has finished" situation seems like a valid bug report too.

Dave8266
Posts: 17
Joined: 20 Mar 2020, 23:57

Re: DipTrace 4.0 Release

#83 Post by Dave8266 » 04 Jul 2020, 22:35

frankcellini wrote:
02 Jul 2020, 23:14
News from Apple recently revealed a move away from Intel processors to Apple Silicon which is based on ARM architecture, same processors that power iPhones and iPads. First machine with Apple Silicon comes before end of year ad developers can get MacMini prototype for testing apps already. I wonder what will happen to Diptrace when all Apple machines run on ARM based Apple Silicon, roughly in 2 years. I see that DipTrace on Mac runs using Wine, but does Wine need Intel processor? Apple has promised Virtualisation technology built into Silicon but did not say that Windows could run using virtualising technology.
If it helps, Wine itself doesn't require the x86 architecture, but most of the Windows program that you would run under Wine do. That's the rub.

There is an experimental project called "Hangover" that may be of interest. It's a combination of Wine and QEMU, both compiled for 64-bit ARM. Any of the application code that falls under Wine's libraries will run natively, and anything x86-specific that remains will be emulated via QEMU. So the resulting performance of the application is heavily dependent on how the original application was written.

We will have to wait and see what Apple provides for architecture emulation/compatibility. But it might also be a good time for DipTrace to move toward an actual cross-platform build, rather than relying on Wine and suffering through the compatibility bugs and odd quirks that come with it.

One thing is for sure - this "problem" isn't just going to go away. If DipTrace were to stop supporting Macs going forward, it would be a pretty big blow to the teams and corporations who selected it as their cross-platform tool of choice.

gunrunnerjohn
Posts: 38
Joined: 28 Jun 2013, 16:17

Re: DipTrace 4.0 Release

#84 Post by gunrunnerjohn » 05 Jul 2020, 09:19

Dave8266 wrote:
04 Jul 2020, 22:26
gunrunnerjohn wrote:
04 Jul 2020, 11:09
Once you've run the autorouter, sometimes things aren't 100% routed. However, there are also times that the verification misses that fact! If you look closely, the tiny ratlines are there
I too have seen that. I'd second the vote for a toggle option to make ratlines prominent, but the "ratlines still remain when the autorouter claims it has finished" situation seems like a valid bug report too.
Probably so, because that's a real fooler as well. I've only got stung with a board fabrication once when this happened, the route finished 100%, and the verification declared everything good. Fortunately, it was a one-off prototype, and I just added the wire to finish testing, but I was not impressed. I'm at a loss as to how the program can have non-routed traces and not detect that, it would "seem" obvious that was the case. The graphics engine is drawing ratlines, if that count isn't zero, it should not declare the board finished.

novarm44
Technical Support
Posts: 388
Joined: 09 Jun 2010, 06:24
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Re: DipTrace 4.0 Release

#85 Post by novarm44 » 06 Jul 2020, 04:19

gunrunnerjohn wrote:
05 Jul 2020, 09:19
Probably so, because that's a real fooler as well. I've only got stung with a board fabrication once when this happened, the route finished 100%, and the verification declared everything good. Fortunately, it was a one-off prototype, and I just added the wire to finish testing, but I was not impressed. I'm at a loss as to how the program can have non-routed traces and not detect that, it would "seem" obvious that was the case. The graphics engine is drawing ratlines, if that count isn't zero, it should not declare the board finished.
Do you use Net Connectivity Check? It should display any non-routed traces/nets. DRC checks clearances, sizes, but not connectivity.
If Net Connectivity Check says "no errors" and something is still not connected, this is serious bug - please send such layout to us for verification

gunrunnerjohn
Posts: 38
Joined: 28 Jun 2013, 16:17

Re: DipTrace 4.0 Release

#86 Post by gunrunnerjohn » 06 Jul 2020, 09:04

novarm44 wrote:
06 Jul 2020, 04:19
gunrunnerjohn wrote:
05 Jul 2020, 09:19
Probably so, because that's a real fooler as well. I've only got stung with a board fabrication once when this happened, the route finished 100%, and the verification declared everything good. Fortunately, it was a one-off prototype, and I just added the wire to finish testing, but I was not impressed. I'm at a loss as to how the program can have non-routed traces and not detect that, it would "seem" obvious that was the case. The graphics engine is drawing ratlines, if that count isn't zero, it should not declare the board finished.
Do you use Net Connectivity Check? It should display any non-routed traces/nets. DRC checks clearances, sizes, but not connectivity.
If Net Connectivity Check says "no errors" and something is still not connected, this is serious bug - please send such layout to us for verification
I certainly do, before I commit a board I use all the checks, including comparing to the schematic, and then visually look it over to see if I see any ratlines still visible. If any of the checks shows an error, I obviously go back and address it. More than once, the answer has been yes, it passes all the checks and still has at least one non-routed trace.

I've also seen a ratline left over even though the net is complete, that's less serious, but still a royal PITA because I have to track it down.

The next time it happens, I'll save that layout and send it along.

Dave8266
Posts: 17
Joined: 20 Mar 2020, 23:57

Re: DipTrace 4.0 Release

#87 Post by Dave8266 » 06 Jul 2020, 11:29

I'll keep an eye out for it too. It could be user error on my part, but I'll see if it happens again, and what the circumstances are.

In other news, I just saw that 4.0.0.3 was released last week. Is there any way to find out which bugs were fixed since 4.0.0.2?

Thanks

Dave8266
Posts: 17
Joined: 20 Mar 2020, 23:57

Re: DipTrace 4.0 Release

#88 Post by Dave8266 » 16 Jul 2020, 15:26

Dave8266 wrote:
06 Jul 2020, 11:29
In other news, I just saw that 4.0.0.3 was released last week. Is there any way to find out which bugs were fixed since 4.0.0.2?
... and now the same question for the 4.0.0.4 that was released a few days ago? :D

edit: Also, the download for 4.0.0.4 seems markedly smaller... 732 MB, vs ~1.2GB for 4.0.0.3, 4.0.0.2, and 4.0.0.1.

novarm44
Technical Support
Posts: 388
Joined: 09 Jun 2010, 06:24
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Re: DipTrace 4.0 Release

#89 Post by novarm44 » 16 Jul 2020, 18:29

Dave8266 wrote:
16 Jul 2020, 15:26
... and now the same question for the 4.0.0.4 that was released a few days ago? :D
edit: Also, the download for 4.0.0.4 seems markedly smaller... 732 MB, vs ~1.2GB for 4.0.0.3, 4.0.0.2, and 4.0.0.1.
All 4.0.0.x are minor updates without new features: We fix all bugs and issues found by our testers, reported at forum, Mantis, or in communities. When fix some amount of bugs or find and fix any critical bug - publish update. We have the list in SVN commits from developers and testers (source and number), but do not make specific list for publishing, like we do with features. All bugs fixed in 4.0.0.3 were non-critical (this is just planned update), in 4.0.0.4 we have fixed all minor bugs and one critical bug (Trace via on T-connection may not be exported into Gerber/Drill in some cases, bug appeared in 4.0.0.3), so update was urgent, then we have returned key-people to the office from remote work to avoid such issues.
I'm not sure what is about size - our Mac guy continually works on improving that, so probably he removed some unnecessary modules of Win>Mac environment.

DrGeoff
Posts: 1
Joined: 22 Mar 2018, 19:21

Re: DipTrace 4.0 Release

#90 Post by DrGeoff » 16 Jul 2020, 20:01

Where are the sheet and title block settings stored in a Win10 system?
I had some in DT3 that are not appearing in DT4 after updating (into a different directory Program Files/Diptrace4).
Would like to restore them rather than recreate if possible.

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